Email Battles

July 1st. Canada Day

July 1st is Canada Day in Canada.  It is our celebration of Canada, and Canad’s birthday.  Americans do it on July 4th.

Only July 1st, 2009, I posted the following status on Facebook:

Jeff Goebel celebrates not being American today.

As expected, this started an interesting discussion with a friend (who I thought was Canadian) . One of the things I love about Facebook is that such discussions (argument?) are contained to people I know. On a forum, this fight would have exploded in a flood of idiots and flamers and yellers and craziness. Here on Facebook, it was an interesting discussion of people I know.

Tom Neumann at 12:53am July 1 I have always thought it sad that the sentence that best describes Canadians is “We’re not American”.

Mary Applebaum at 1:24am July 1

I wish I was. Unfortunately, I am, and have to celebrate the 4th. lol

Marvin Dzeeber at 5:50pm July 1

What an absolutely ignorant thing to say.

Jeff Goebel at 7:00pm July 1

I’m not sure ignorant is the right term. Much of what Canada calls pride is the pride of not being American. We cling to colour and beer and being liked in Europe, and almost always compare to what we’re not.

Tom Neumann at 9:56pm July

1 I still think it is sad.. there is so much to appreciate in Canada, so many good things we ARE, as opposed to bad things we ARE NOT.

Marvin Dzeeber at 11:27pm July 1

Jeff, you make it sound like Canada has an identity crisis. I don’t think it does. I think it has a very well developed identity both here and abroad. Unfortunately too many Canadians take up this “we are not…” attitude, and even worse it usually end with … American.

Helen Ratcliffe at 4:08am July 2

Boy that took the fun right out of it….tar and feather him!!!!


Jeff Goebel at 6:48am July 2

I love Canada…and have Canadian Pride. When I joke about my pride about NOT being American, it’s still Canadia pride. I’m not feeling LESS THAN American…. I’m feeling better. I don’t vote for judges, I don’t fear the streets, I walk alone at night, I don’t carry a gun, I don’t think they’ve ever filmed a COPS episode in Waterloo. Lots of things… all feeling superior to our Southern influence. I watch Corner Gas and Rick Mercer and Flashpoint. I love Canada.

I am starting to think it’s YOU I have a problem with. (giggle)

Marvin Dzeeber at 9:32am July 2

So you show your love for Canada by spitting in the face of your largest trading partner? I think you should be much more appreciative of everything the US has done for you.

As for your thoughts on the US: In invite you to walk down Jane / Finch, I think they have filmed a “to server and protect” in Waterloo, and if you watch corner has then there is no hope for you anyway.

Jeff Goebel at 9:40am July 2

I’m not saying Canada doesn’t have crime or poverty Marvin. I’m making a joke, and joking about how Canada is NOT the USA is a very real part of Canada pride, whether you think so or not.

Much of the USA is nice, and the people can be as nice as anywhere else, but HATING THE USA is hip… cool. Arrogance of Americans thinking they’re the greatest is part of the fun.

I don’t have a real predudice… but I do enjoy the fact that the world doesn’t hate me as much as they hate Americans. I find that funny. Humans tend to be predudice. We’re outlawing racial predudice slowley, working on sexual predudice, but a lot of personal pride is still based on being better than somebody else… and we ARE better than America. (heheheh)

Helen Ratcliffe at 10:56am July 2

I couldn’t sleep… I think a light hearted comment has hit a cord. All I can say it WOW… lighten up… !!!!! Get over it and move on…!!! I know you Jeff…it seems others do not!

July 4th is coming up… shall we enter into a discussion about that!!!! Oh yes they made a movie about that…mmmmmm

Jeff Goebel at 11:12am July 2

hehehe.. I like Facebook debates. I work at home. I don’t have idiots at work to laugh at/with. I defend my right to be proud I’m not American… and the argument started actually – because I thought “ignornat” was the wrong word…

Sylvia Gallus at 1:21pm July 2

Are we having an argument?

>>So you show your love for Canada by spitting in the face of your largest trading partner?

Why not, when “Buy American” policies are spitting in the face of Canada… Go talk to the mayor of Halton Hills.

Tom Neumann at 1:25pm July 2

Does spitting back make us better?

Marvin Dzeeber at 1:34pm July 2

The comments in this thread prove my point that many Canadians have a anti American sentiment, which in my opinion is very ignorant.

Jeff Goebel at 3:35pm July 2

The WORLD has an anti-American sentiment, but is that ignorance? I suppose in the same way people think all blacks act the same and all gays are the same and women shouldn’t drive and chinese are smart. That is ignorant I guess.

However I have long believed that comedy and predudice are different. Making people laugh can transend predudice if you let it. We laugh at sterotypes because they’re funny – because THEY EXIST.. not always because we believe them.

My anti-American sentiment is based in my own experiences combined with stereotypes. I don’t hate every American… I don’t even hate Americans… but I know enough of the world does to be happy to be Canadian. Our Stereotypes are about loving better beer, eskimos, Mounties, weird prnouciations of the word ABOOT, politeness, couresy and not being American. … Read More

In fact, Canada’s stereotypes ALSO include NOT being ignorant. We know all that there are 50 states, and where Europe is on a map. How am I ignorant again?

You do know what ignorant means, right? Maybe you’re ignorant of it’s definition.

Which ones applies to preferring not be live in a country hated internationally:

Marvin Dzeeber at 4:00pm July 2

The first few apply, as it shows a lack of knowledge for a) what the US has done for you in the past b) what it is doing for you now.

Jeff Goebel at 4:19pm July 2

oh! I am ignormat because I’m not allowed to hate a country that helps me. OH! I didn’t know that was the criteria. That seems like the oddest comment you’ve made. I sense you’re tiring of this discussion and not putting any effort in. You’re free to admit defeat. It was silly to argue anyway, since my happiness in not being American isn’t reflective of any assistance we’ve gotten.

If I aknowledge the world needs the USA and everyone bows to it… can I then hate it wihout being labled ignorant? This seems to strengthen my point more than yours. I must agree you are great… and then it’s OK to be proud I’m not you.

Jeff Goebel at 4:34pm July 2

–P.S. I have decided this was so much fun, I am re-posting the fight on my SILLY AMERICANS web site. Let me know if you’d prefer your names changed.

Helen Ratcliffe at 6:59pm July 2

Wow I am getting hungry for some take out… McD’s anyone!!! I hear if you are the 100th customer in the drive through in the states you get a free gun!!! Eh!

Marvin Dzeeber at 7:34pm July 2

Jeff… based on this last comment, you still think the word ignorance does not apply?

Jeff Goebel at 7:47pm July 2

Yes… 100%. I don’t see how you think it does.

I’m so confused. Ignorance is ignorance. You seem ignornat of the difference between humour and reality. I can’t see where I have shown any ignorance, and I can’t understand how “what the US has done for me” applies in any way.

If a stranger on nthe street offers me candy, am I all of a sudden ignorant? I’m so confused.

Marvin Dzeeber at 8:25pm July 2

If you think a getting a gun at McDonalds is not an ignorant statement then I give up.

Jeff Goebel at 8:33pm July 2

So you think Helen really believes in her heart that you can get a gun at McDonalds. You believe this is her ignorance at the truth, and she is essentially an idiot. You believe this?

Ignoreance means she doesn’t know. She doesn’t have the knowledge that what she says is untrue.

– the lack of knowledge or education. – The condition of being uninformed or uneducated. Lacking knowledge or information

What knowledge is she lacking? What information is she unaware of?

I read every line of definitions and the closest Helen becomes to ignorant in this case, is that I think she plays a musical instrument, so that means she could be in the British thrash band named Ignorance. I just don’t see what you think she is lacking.

You are the ignorant one, misunderstanding the concept of this word. She was funny. As funny as a newfie joke, or a Irish joke.

Helen Ratcliffe at 8:57pm July 2

You know Marvin… I am not sure if you know light humour… but god forbid you ever walk into a comedy house…Lighten up and give it up…who are you.. and why are you soooo angry…you walked into my remark the way I expected you to. You are predictable and not forgiving in any way as I can see…I take it you live a perfect life… in your perfect box… who can live up to your idea of perfection of politics and humour… have a happy closed minded life… you are way tooo sheltered and from what I can see your aguements are shallow and have no standing polically… Go pick on someone else cause I tire of your weak comments… I suggest no one make anymore remarks… we have all said our peace…

Marvin Dzeeber at 9:08pm July

2 My perfect world is ruined by ignorant, ungrateful America bashers such as you.

Sylvia Gallus at 10:18pm July 2

Oooh, pardon my ignorance, but I have to make another remark: My perfect world can never exist because of more important things like poverty, famine, racism, bigotry…

Marvin Dzeeber at 10:26pm July 2

like the bigotry against Americans expressed by this thread?

Jeff Goebel at 10:51pm July 2

Good thing you’re not a gay black woman from the South… You’d have even more jokes you’d be offended by. Your perfect world exists in your head… but I still stand by my remarks that comedy isn’t ignorant. IT all started with Canadian pride not being American. The bashing (which didn’t actually really happen) was more in your head.

I wonder if you’re just playing with me as I was playing with you. In eother case, thanks for the thread. It will be popular online I suspect.

I was thinking… If an American jokes that all Canadians are Egloo living Eskimos, and laughs… it’s not ignorant. If an American comes to the border in July wearing 3 sweaters and has skis on his pickup truck, it is igorant. If a Canadian jokes about guns at McDonalds, it isn’t ignorant. If he goes to a US McDonalds and is upset they don’t … Read Morehave a free happymeal pistol, it is ignorant. If a Canadian is proud he’s not ignorant, and an American (fan) calls him ignorant… which one is misinformed and lacking the right information?

Helen Ratcliffe at 9:39am July 3

Hard to resist isn’t it…. I think what is missing here is the right to express your opinion and not to be judged harshly… and the only person who is not allowing an opinion is Marvin… Freedom of speech…leave the thread if it offends you so much…why don’t you go to a site like the “KKK” that is American born and bread that has many opinions of white, woman, blacks, jews, etc, etc, etc. If you have so much spit and fire I am sure your talents can be used elsewhere…

Jeff Goebel at 9:45am July 3

His replies have never exceeded three sentences, so he wouldn’t do well in real debates. He just keeps repeating ignorance hoping that it will be correct the fifth time.

Marvin Dzeeber at 10:07am July 3

How exactly am I supposed to respond? Since non of you have provided any sold argument. All you have stated is that you think you are superior and posted stereotypical comments. If perhaps you actually stated something of value I could respond with something of value. If the only thing you have to say is how happy you are that you are not American, that you can get a gun at McDonalds and bring the KKK into it then the only way I can really respond is “ignorant” was I supposed to use stupid?

I think deep down inside your dislike for the US is a deep inferiority complex. Its a pity that you can’t find anything positive to say about Canada and have to resort to putting down your neighbour instead. Very similar to a politician that has no real platform and flings mud at the opponent.

I am tired of going around in circles. We are not going to get anywhere. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours. All the best, and good luck.

Jeff Goebel at 10:55am July 3

hehehe… I win.

However, to be fair – My argument wasn’t about the US at all. It was that you didn’t know what ignorant means. Ignorant does not mean what you implied over and over. I found no proof of this, and you provided none. You were using ignorant like a synonym for redneck, or hick, or stupid. I stood by the definitions that ignorant meant I didn’t understand or know things. Nowhere in my entire conversation did I show any signs of ignorance by definition… and all you did was say I was ignorant over and over. Thats what confused me, and inspired others to poke fun.

Others may look at this thread and see three people making jokes and you being the one trying to keep up. This wasn’t about hate or ignorance. It was more about teasing the weak, like tossing your hat around while you’re monkey in the middle.e

Perhaps it was mean, but it was at least entertaining. I was hoping for more from you. Some defense or some intelligence, but you just kept repeating.

Question: Would you ever make the statement; I am glad I don’t live in Nigeria? I am glad I don’t like in Columbia (or wherever).

P.S. It should be noted that Marvin is NOT American, and as far as I know, was born and raised in Canada.


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